Hypotheses · age-stamina · H-ebbea470
Rival: light weight, not youth, carries the marathon handicap chase lift
fails: 124 bets, needs 300; A/E 0.477, needs 1.05; p 0.9673, needs 0.05 or lower; periods [0.4], each needs 1.0; A/E 0.477 against same-race control 1.154, needs 0.03 above (not a niche pass: A/E 0.477 below 1.05; p 0.9673149946517685 above 0.5; does not beat the same-race control 1.154; a period po
Part of the thread “H175: young horse in a marathon chase” 20 hypotheses
- Proposed
- Designed
- Discovery
- Promising
- Falsification
- Frozen
- Vault
- Provisional
- Shadow
- Validated
- Live
- Source
- Investigator agent, v1
- Made by
- rival-explanation
- Created
- 16 Oct, 13:56
- Tests logged
- 1
Reasoning
Why this hypothesis exists: what the lab saw, the question it asked, the mechanism it proposed, what it predicted, and the result that would prove it wrong. Written before the test was run.
- Observed
- H-9cf148a1 (Older horses in marathon handicap chases are over-bet (mirror of the y) pointed the predicted way but failed the bar: A/E 0.97 on 148 bets (p 0.581), control 1.03. O-0ba01528
- H-8b0e3766 (Rival: big-field festival marathon handicaps, not youth, produce the l) passed discovery but was falsified: driven by one price band (up to 7/1): the rest score 0.89; 2 of 3 attacks broke it; fewer than two periods with enough bets to compare (thin: the forward record will judge). O-7c17994b
- H-98848406 (Young marathon chasers stepping up to 3m4f+ for the first time carry t) met the sealed vault supportive: A/E 1.22 on 384 bets (p 0.0945, threshold 0.0025). O-bef6da89
- AskedIs the young-stayer lift at 3m4f+ a weight effect, with young, lower-rated horses carrying light weights over trips where every pound counts more? answered
- MechanismOver 3m4f+ the effect of weight builds up over the extra distance and the tiring finish. Young chasers are usually lower-rated and carry light weights, so the lift credited to age may really belong to a light weight.
- Why the market misses itPunters price on rating and form, and the weight scale treats a pound the same at 2m and at 4m. If weight counts for more at marathon trips, light weights are under-bet whatever their age.
- Predictedpositive, A/E 1.08 to 1.18 on 400+ bets if the rival is real
Mechanism and rationale
Over 3m4f+ the effect of weight builds up over the extra distance and the tiring finish. Young chasers are usually lower-rated and carry light weights, so the lift credited to age may really belong to a light weight.
The rule
race_type = 'Chase' AND is_handicap = 1 AND age >= 8 AND distance_yards >= 6160 AND weight_lbs <= bottom_weight_lbs + 7
Reads: race_type, is_handicap, age, distance_yards, weight_lbs, bottom_weight_lbs
Pre-registration
- Spec hash (sha256 of the canonical pre-spec)
- c1efa7bb4e5ec2f9b9233a83e5cbd6c8dd995c6b64109e62866fe1fc6e514565
- Frozen
- not frozen
- The definition can still change.
- Confounders
- Older light-weights are often out of form or declining horses whose low marks reflect regression, which would push A/E down and hide a weight effect
- Horses running from out of the handicap carry the minimum weight but are effectively overweighted on merit; they fall inside the 'within 7 lb of bottom weight' band and may dilute it
- bottom_weight_lbs may reflect the minimum weight or a claimer's allowance rather than the handicap's true floor, so 'light' is measured relative to the race, not to the scale
- Field size: big fields spread weights wider and change how many runners qualify per race
- Festival marathons (Grand National, Scottish/Welsh/Irish Nationals) have compressed or unusual weight ranges and big-priced fields
- Longshot drag: earlier findings show poor ROI in older marathon chasers came from 16/1+ runners, so the price mix can mask a mid-price effect
- Control
{ "description": "Same-race control: the other runners in these marathon handicap chases should sit near par or below (roughly 0.90-1.00), since they are mostly heavier-weighted horses. The key comparison group separates weight from age: older (8+) horses higher in the weights in the same kind of race. If weight drives the lift, these should score clearly lower than the light-weights (around 1.0 or below); if both groups are similar, weight is not the driver. Compare against the young marathon system (about 1.18): a rival that explains the lift should bring older light-weights close to that figure.", "rule": "race_type = 'Chase' AND is_handicap = 1 AND age >= 8 AND distance_yards >= 6160 AND weight_lbs > bottom_weight_lbs + 7" }
Discovery result
fail broad rule · 16 Oct, 13:58
- Bets
- 124
- 4 winners
- A/E
- 0.48
- 95%: 0.13 to 1.22
- SP return
- -82.9%
- level stakes
- Betfair SP return
- -79.6%
- 124 bets with a BSP
Strike rate 3.2%. p = 0.97. Same-race control: the other runners in these races had A/E 1.15, so the selection did not beat its own races. Zone: discovery. Evaluator eval-1.0, data 6a4e98be18e83933
By period
Falsification
No attacks yet. Only promising ideas are attacked.
Sealed holdout (vault)
Not queried. Only a frozen idea can spend its one query against the 2020-25 holdout.
Forward record
No forward record. Shadow tracking starts after the vault and counts only races run after the freeze.
Lineage
Agent runs
designer v1ok · 42s · 16 Oct, 13:56
Output (schema-checked)
{ "rule": "race_type = 'Chase' AND is_handicap = 1 AND age >= 8 AND distance_yards >= 6160 AND weight_lbs <= bottom_weight_lbs + 7", "refinements": [ { "label": "14/1 or shorter", "rule": "race_type = 'Chase' AND is_handicap = 1 AND age >= 8 AND distance_yards >= 6160 AND weight_lbs <= bottom_weight_lbs + 7 AND sp_decimal <= 15" }, { "label": "ages 8-9 only (excludes declining veterans)", "rule": "race_type = 'Chase' AND is_handicap = 1 AND age >= 8 AND age <= 9 AND distance_yards >= 6160 AND weight_lbs <= bottom_weight_lbs + 7" } ], "control": { "description": "Same-race control: the other runners in these marathon handicap chases should sit near par or below (roughly 0.90-1.00), since they are mostly heavier-weighted horses. The key comparison group separates weight from age: older (8+) horses higher in the weights in the same kind of race. If weight drives the lift, these should score clearly lower than the light-weights (around 1.0 or below); if both groups are similar, weight is not the driver. Compare against the young marathon system (about 1.18): a rival that explains the lift should bring older light-weights close to that figure.", "rule": "race_type = 'Chase' AND is_handicap = 1 AND age >= 8 AND distance_yards >= 6160 AND weight_lbs > bottom_weight_lbs + 7" }, "pass_criteria": { "min_bets": 300, "min_ae": 1.05, "max_p": 0.05 }, "forward_bar": { "min_bets": 100, "min_ae": 1, "max_p": 0.2 }, "confounders": [ "Older light-weights are often out of form or declining horses whose low marks reflect regression, which would push A/E down and hide a weight effect", "Horses running from out of the handicap carry the minimum weight but are effectively overweighted on merit; they fall inside the 'within 7 lb of bottom weight' band and may dilute it", "bottom_weight_lbs may reflect the minimum weight or a claimer's allowance rather than the handicap's true floor, so 'light' is measured relative to the race, not to the scale", "Field size: big fields spread weights wider and change how many runners qualify per race", "Festival marathons (Grand National, Scottish/Welsh/Irish Nationals) have compressed or unusual weight ranges and big-priced fields", "Longshot drag: earlier findings show poor ROI in older marathon chasers came from 16/1+ runners, so the price mix can mask a mid-price effect" ], "mechanism": "At 3m4f+ the cost of weight adds up over the extra distance and the tiring finish, so a pound matters more than the standard scale assumes. Young marathon chasers tend to be lower-rated and carry light weights, so the live young-stayer lift (A/E about 1.16-1.22) may belong to weight, not age. If so, older horses within 7 lb of bottom weight in the same races should beat their prices too.", "market_miss": "Punters and the handicapper price on rating and form using a weight-for-lengths scale that treats a pound the same at 2m and 4m. If weight counts for more at marathon trips, light weights are under-bet whatever their age, and the market blames their low weight on lack of ability, not on a stamina advantage.", "prediction": { "direction": "positive", "size": "A/E 1.08 to 1.18 on 400+ bets if the weight rival is real", "falsified_if": "A/E at or below 1.0 on 300+ bets, or the light-weight group not clearly above the heavier older control, which rules the weight rival out and leaves youth as the driver of the marathon lift" }, "notes": "This is a rival-explanation test for the live SYS-young-stayer-marathon-handicap-chase. A null or negative result supports youth as the driver, which is a useful outcome either way. I raised min_bets to 300 to match the falsification threshold. Refinements come from the reasoning: the longshot drag in earlier older-horse results and the 'declining horses' confounder. The price split is not to be sliced further." }
Timeline
Job 1723 finished
· engine:compute-1
H-ebbea470 Discovery → KILLED fails: 124 bets, needs 300; A/E 0.477, needs 1.05; p 0.9673, needs 0.05 or lower; periods [0.4], each needs 1.0; A/E 0.477 against same-race control 1.154, needs 0.03 above (not a niche pass: A/E 0.477 below 1.05; p 0.9673149946517685 above 0.5; does not beat the same-race control 1.154; a period points the other way [0.4])
· engine:evaluator
discovery result for H-ebbea470 (broad rule): fail
· engine:evaluator
H-ebbea470 Designed → RESEARCHdiscovery measuring on the discovery zone
· engine:orchestrator
compute-1 took job 1723 (evaluate, attempt 1)
· compute-1
Job 1721 finished
· engine:ai-1
Queued evaluate on the compute lane: discovery run of the broad rule
· engine:scheduler
H-ebbea470 Proposed → RESEARCHdesigned pre-spec written and hashed
· agent:designer@v1
ai-1 took job 1721 (design, attempt 1)
· ai-1
Queued design on the ai lane: write the pre-spec
· engine:scheduler
New idea H-ebbea470: Rival: light weight, not youth, carries the marathon handicap chase lift (rival-explanation)
· agent:investigator@v1
Every change is an event with an actor: an agent and its version, an engine, a human, or the importer. Current stage: Killed.